February 28, 2006

Commentary on the lack of charges in the Stepp/Voces incident.

Earlier today we broke the story there would be no charges filed against Christine Newmann-Ortiz and her "advocacy" group Voces de la Frontera.

Why? Two positively gutless prosecutors.

Let me remind you folks of how this all started. Voces had targeted Cathy Stepp as she had announced she was undecided on AB-69. They pushed her and lobbied her hard. Her final decision was to not support the bill.

This outraged VDLF and they went to her Madison office to confront her on it.

Not finding her there they drove to her Racine office. (107.5 miles)

After a 2 hour drive they did not find her at her Racine office.

Someone had the bright idea to go to her house. A phone call was made to the Racine Sheriff's office asking about rules against PROTESTING a persons private home.

So they drove from her Racine office to her home to confront her there.

Now, this is where the story changes.

The VDLF story. Four people walked calmly to the front door and politely rang the doorbell. Senator Stepp's deranged lunatic husband came to the door screaming and yelling at them telling them to leave their property. And VDLF left without further provocation.

Now tell me this, considering all the effort and energy expended by VDLF after Stepp decided against their position on AB-69, would any sane person believe that while VDLF was so ticked off that they chased half way across the state because they just had to contact her that day instead of waiting for her office to open on Monday just knocked politely on the door and then left after Stepp's husband was supposedly rude?

Because that is what they have been saying.

Let me tell you what really happened that day. VDLF was ticked, I mean Grade-A boiling mad ticked. They chased around the state looking for her and the more they could not find her, the madder they got. The more they fueled each others anger. When they got there they pounded on windows, they shouted out loud and they scared the living crap out of Cathy Stepp and her family. They acted as enraged individuals do.

Did Mr Stepp confront them and yell at them and tell them to leave? I sure as heck would, but I would not do that to someone who knocked on my door and was polite, and neither would Mr. Stepp.

This is nothing more than common sense and human behavior. Were their actions as bad as Senator Stepp described them? I don't know. Maybe not. What mother when confronted by an enraged mob would not react emotionally when she felt her kids were threatened.

In my earlier post today this question was asked in the comments, in response to Peter Digaudio by Eduard who is a Voces apologist, "Peter, tell me what voces has done that even remotely approaches domestic terrorism."

I'll answer that Eduard and right out here on the main page not in comments that not everyone reads.

Voces used fear and physical intimidation to the attempted furtherment of their agenda. That is not strapping a bomb to yourself but that IS terrorism.

Eduard if you are honest and if you know anything about human behavior my read on this situation is 100% accurate, and you know it.

I wrote on Saturday about Casa of Maryland. They are promoting and proud of the fact that people who are watching them to see they are in violation of labor laws are going to be targets of Casa for protest. They intend on loud protests at their homes, places of work and even their children's schools.

This is EXACTLY the same kind of boorish behavior Voces de la Frontera participated in.

This story is not over, nor is the behavior of these types of groups.

I broke this story, I pushed it and I ain't done with it yet. It is my firm belief this group is not in compliance of the law in regards to their 501 (c)(3) status. There is other shady activity there as well that if you can draw a line it is easy enough to figure out. And I am going to keep on shouting about it until someone listens!

The Racine DA was a wimp to pass this out to Jefferson. The Jefferson DA was a wimp not to issue charges. And one more little breaking news factoid for you folks. He made the decision on last week Thursday and did not let Senator Stepp know until late Tuesday afternoon. How is that for gutless?

(BTW this must be the 4 millionth time I have scooped the Journal Times)


Eduard said...

Your facts are wrong.

Voces didn't protest at Stepp's office in Madison that day. They were at her downtown Racine office. I believe the Journal Times reported this, too.

Everything else is basically Stepp's word against Voces'. You choose to believe the former, I the latter.

You asked what my connection to Voces is. I'm not a member, but I've participated in things they've sponsored. I wasn't there that day, but I've no reason to doubt the word of people I know personally.

I do know that Voces isn't out to intimidate anybody, and being called terrorists is patently offensive to me because I've participated in political action with Voces.

Four people showing up at Stepp's house was probably an error in judgment on the part of Voces, but to call it terrorism is ridiculous. If Stepp responded out of fear, well that's unfortunate. That wasn't anyone's intent. But physical intimidation? Come on.

realdebate said...

First of all eduard, if you know anything about human behavior you know I am correct here.

The Voces folks were mad, they invaded her personal property and behaved badly.

I would be yelling twice as loud if this was a conservative group. This is not the kind of protest that should be allowed.

These people are breaking the law every day they go on lobbying so much and claiming NA on their taxes.

Their story just simply does not add up.

Tell me Eduard should I post the home addresses of Neumann-Ortiz and Morales and organize protests of their boorish behavior at their homes?

I can assure you I have the information. Would you defend me if I did that?

Somehow I doubt it.

eduard said...

Fred, I'm under no obligation to defend Voces, and I certainly don't speak on their behalf.

Like I said elsewhere, appearing at Stepp's home was probably an error in judgment, but it was certainly no "invasion."

I can tell you that you are on the wrong track with the whole non-profit/lobbying thing. For the IRS, political lobbying is measured in dollars spent, not time or energy. Non profits are allowed a certain percentage of revenue to do non-partisan lobbying. The Voces campaign against the driver license bill is non-partisan. Doyle was (and continues to be ) as much a target as Stepp.

As for posting the addresses, do what you want. They're not that hard to find.

I'd like to ask you a question, and I would appreciate an honest, well-considered reply:

What rights do unauthorized immigrants have? Is there any level of personal justice or dignity for them that we as humans are bound to respect? Have you ever met an unauthorized immigrant? How would you know if you did?

Okay, sorry, that's more than one question, but I'd like to pick your brain. If you don't want to respond on the blog, feel free to email me at eduard.fat.leg@gmail.com.

(Although people will see the address on this post, please don't spread it all over the blogosphere!)

realdebate said...

I would rather address that is a seperate post down the line.

The short answer. They have the right to have teir butts shipped back to where they came from.

I am all for legal immigration. I have a MAJOR issue with illegals coming here outside of normal procedures. That shows a willingness to break the law before they even try to blend into society.

On the tax issue Eduard, I am correct. I am well aware of the limitations. The key is they have to be disclosed. Voces did not do that on their tax return. In the section on lobbying voces answered NA.

RoseIndigo said...

I'd like to respond to Eduard's commentary of: "What rights do unauthorized immigrants have?" --- NONE except to be sent back home.

"Is there any level of personal justice or dignity for them that we as humans are bound to respect?" --- Yes, feed them if they are hungry, give them drink if they are thirsty, and then SEND THEM BACK HOME. Other than that they can seek personal justice and dignity back on their home ground. Certainly NOT here.

"Have you ever met an unauthorized immigrant?" ---- Yup, sure have. Many of them are even proud of having come here illegally and boast about it. I live in California where there is a huge illegal immigration influx and they have become quite bold and aggressive and don't even mind telling you and daring you to do something about it.

"How would you know if you did?" --- They said so because the more of them there are the bolder and more shameless they get.

Ya know, I'm an immigrant myself Eduard, but here is the difference between the immigrants of mine and my father's generation and the immigrants who come here now. And that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD:

We came here because we wanted freedom and a better life. We looked at this society and saw that of all the places on the planet this society had figured it out the best so far, where a human being could be both personally happy and economically happy and participate in the society's decision making without intimidation.

Now that meant we DISCARDED the habits of where we came from because the reason we left there is because those habits did not serve us well, and we came here and tried to learn the habits of THIS civilization, to fit in, to learn the language and to obey its laws and social rules. We did not agitate for special rights and throw guilt about human rights in everyone's faces, because we trusted that we lived in a humane society that would try to treat us fairly, giving us the freedom to enter the mainstream. We came here to seek that sort of freedom, and we came here LEGALLY to seek it.

The present immigrants, especially from Mexico, come here mainly for economic reasons. They want all the rights to pursue those economic reasons without giving up their habits, their language, or their culture, which is what made the country they escaped from such a mess in the first place, and they have no intention of entering into this society and contributing to it, because they come and go back, and those who don't keep Mexico in their hearts as something special instead of what it really is, which is a poor country for good reasons.

So then they come here, millions of them ILLEGALLY, thus breaking our laws even to get here, and then they break more laws once they are here, not only personally, but also via organizations such as Voces. Then they not only use their tax exempt status which I pay for to intimidate, but tresspass on private property to do their intimidation---lack of good judgment or not. It shows their aggression pretty plainly.

None of the other immigrant groups have ever tried to do that. The huge numers of Polish never tried to turn this country into Poland. The huge numbers of Germans never tried to turn it into Germany. The enormous numbers of Italians never tried to turn this into Italy even with the mafia having the power to try that trick. So if Mexicans want to turn this country into Mexico, why in the hell didn't they just stay in Mexico and not bother us in the first place?

But along they come ILLEGALLY yet, and set our laws (which have worked for us a reason) on their ear and are very aggressive about it to boot. If anyone calls them on it they yell "unfair" or "human rights violation". They have driven wages down in almost every industry that our union people fought for. They have made a mess of our cities with their lack of hygiene and gang warfare. They don't want to speak English and are pushing to have this be a dual-language country,even if it's just by default. Most of the money earned is not given back to this economy but flows into Mexico. They use our social services and and WE THE TAXPAYER have to foot the bills. A good percentage are criminals and they cost us a whole lot of money too. And someone who comes here and sees this country merely as a money-making machine and has no intention of giving anything back, is also someone whose loyalty I suspect. I could go on and on.

I can also tell you that the more numerous they are the more they insist on having their way which didn't work in the old country and isn't gonna work now. But their aggression pulls all that this country has accomplished down into the gutter with them.

What I find interesting is that this country became what it is, economically and politically, for a reason, and when I came here I saw absolutely no reason to change any of that. Instead I tried to fit in and learn what the rules were so I could prosper like the country.

So what I see by illegal immigration and organizations such as Voces is something that makes me livid. The fact that our government is doing nothing about it makes me feel betrayed.

All I can say is if you want to bypass our laws by immigrating illegally or by who gets a driver's license, not speak our language, and not fit into AMERICA AS IT IS, then you have no business being here.

If you are here legally and try to fit in and learn what the rules are that made this country great, I have no problem with you. But if you are not one of those immigrants I have a whole hell of a lot of problems with you, and would much prefer if you left. And I'm not gonna like you or help you in any way, shape or form. I came here to the in the U.S.A. If I had wanted to live in Mexico I would have gone there.

RoseIndigo said...

And just for RDW's info, were you aware that Congess just passed a law about illegal immigration and that the organizations who give them refuge will be prosecuted. I will read more about it, as it isn't clear from what I read.

However, Roger Mahoney, the Bishop of the L.A. dioscese has advised his priests to defy the law that congress has made and give refuge anyhow.

So I'm doubly happy that I haven't contributed to my own church for years. Mahoney is an idiot. He never handled the pedophile stuff in his own dioscese, but he's now telling his priests to defy the U.S. Congress. It's quite unbelievable to me, and I hope they nail the bastard to the wall!!!!!!!

It is one thing to help someone out on an immediate basis when they are suffering. It is quite another to defy the U.S. Congress and advocate breaking our laws.

RoseIndigo said...

Yeh, it always amazes me how minority groups complain about wanting to enter the mainstream. Well, to enter the mainstream you have to figure out what the rules are and then do that.

You will NEVER enter the mainstream by complaining and pouting and making up your own rules. Instead, if you complain and pout and whine long enough, and the mainstream does not have the courage to resist you, you will bring the whole edifice down into a huge mess.

And that's what I'm mad about. It isn't just one little incident or the other; it's the overall picture.


Scott D. Feldstein said...

I would be yelling twice as loud if this was a conservative group.


Oh, yeah. A dozen posts in which the "perpetrators" are called "terrorists" and in which you denounce them with multiple exclamation points, etc. I can see it now. Heh.

RoseIndigo said...

Well, all I can say is that Fred seems to see more clearly than you Scott. I'd like to see, if the incident had happened to you what you would say. In fact, I sort of hope it happens to you down the road.

This may not have been a major terrorist act such as a kidnapping and beheading, but it was waaaaaaaay beyond normal social acceptance.

Funny thing is, people like you still don't understand what terrorism is, because your side even call the out-and-out known killers "insurgents" instead of what they actually are, and it took 9/11 before you ever realized that there was such a thing, beginning with smaller incremental acts, and expanding to 9/11 when there was no resistance.

Amazing people on your side. I do wonder how you get through life. Of course, I've noticed that often you don't, and you do a hell of a lot of damage to the rest of us while you are floundering and rewriting vocabulary and history, and refuse to see events building up.