August 17, 2005

Live from the Racine Sheehan Protest

I attended the Cindy Sheehan protest vigil in Racine this evening. There were 16 adult-type people, and 2 little kid type people walking around in circles holding candles and small signs.

Also in attendance were myself, my friend Frank and a reporter and photographer from the Racine Journal Times.


  • Two cars drove by and honked their horns.
  • One car pulled up to the corner with his window down, a protester shouted out to him, "Stop the war", the driver responded, "Finish the job"

Uh that's about it. What can I tell you, it was nothing. 0.00018% of the population showed up for this, and no doubt it will be front and center on the Journal Times in the morning. A bigger crowd than this shows up at Starbucks every morning between 7:00 and 7:15am.

I spent a great deal of time speaking with the Journal Times reporter. He was not at all interested in my name and said the two of us showing up would not be mentioned in his story. He did indicate he had hoped there would be a contingent of Anti-Cindy protestors show up so he would of had a better story.

This was nothing more than a way for to keep this story on the front page of papers all over the country, it worked too, I went down and covered it.


RoseIndigo said...

Misguided and pathetic. So glad to hear that most people had sense enough NOT to be there.

Thanks for your coverage. I'm sure it's more honest than most of the news media will try to convince us of.

They had a similar sort of vigil in Reno, Nevada tonight, the only other one I happen to have heard about because I have friends there. Curious to see what the media will say about it tomorrow. I have the feeling it was another NON-event.

urban pioneer said...

Fred, I had to drive by to see how many folks showed up, I estimated 17 or 18, so it's nice to see you agreed. I was the guy who said "Finish the job" and I heard no-one beep. It looked like the typical left crowd, although the worn out denim jackets must have finally fallen apart, so t-shirts were the new vogue. I'll keep checking back to your blog.

realdebate said...

Welcome Urban Pioneer.... You cracked me up!

RoseIndigo said...

Hey RDW, I wanted to begin a new thread about the "Cindy Sheehan Question" but don't know how to do it. So I guess this is as good a place as any to continue it. When I opened the other thread response my computer froze up---twice---so it's getting too long.

Anyhow, regarding Eric W's commentary: Actually Eric you think you aren't in a box, and maybe you aren't, but you sure sound like one of those paranoid people who goes around talking about the Bilderberger Group. I've never known one of them to make a whole lot of sense because they are paranoid about EVERBODY.

Not that anything would surprise me, including the Bush family having a hand in the one-world government plan. One thing I've learned in my many years of living is that nothing---and I mean absolutely nothing---surprises me anymore. However, I don't think there is any proof for your assertions, whereas Hillary has come right out and said so several times that a One World government is inevitable.

And I need to take exception to your accusing Bush of vacationing with the bin Laden family. I don't think so! Being that they are all oil people, they may have to do business in a civilized way, as people who are in the same business generally do, but bin Laden's family is NOT bin Laden, even if they run in the same business circles.

One could look at me and the people I sometimes have to be civilized to at an art gallery and make all sorts of assumptions about me being a former Berkeley flower child and a leftie, since most artists are ultra-left leaning nut cases, and around here they usually took part in the hippie haven in Berkely. But just because we are standing around having a glass of champagne at a gallery and laugh at a common joke does not friendships make, and certainly does not mean we agree about politics. Bush may or may not be seen with some bin Laden relatives occasionally, but I'm sure it is not a vacation. He probably grits his teeth and does the best he can in the sort of stifling diplomatic protocol he is bound to. Photos are NOT always what they seem.

As for your comment on us nuking the countries that harbor terrorists, I'm not sure we need to go that far----yet. But we sure ought to use every other military tool at our command short of that.

And as Average Joe said, the thing is the terrorists don't have the nukes so far, and our aim has to be that they don't get them. Anything is fair in that game as far as I'm concerned. Even using nukes of our own if we absolutely have to.

Try to understand that even though I was a child ON THE OTHER SIDE in WWII and lost about half my family in that war, I totally agreed with the damage that was done to both Germany and to Japan, including Dresden and Hiroshima. The crazies running those countries HAD TO BE ELIMINATED. Tragic? Yes, absolutely tragic----but the only way the madness could end.

So we will, I think, never agree on this one. And besides, do you have a better plan? You seem to be pretty aware of what the dangers are. Let's hear your solution instead of just nixing what I say. That's easy. Anybody could do that. But solutions are the hard part. Fill me in on how you would fight terrorism and WIN!!!! And let's work on the premise that victory is absolutely necessary because these are sadistic people out to kill the WEST. I personally cannot go from any other premise, so don't even try.

I'm listening.

scott said...

I'm not sure what the protesters want, actually. To bring troops home immediately? I certainly don't agree with that. As I've said before, the only thing I know about Cindy Sheehan is that she seems pissed that the president has been dishonest with us about why we needed to have this war and her son is dead as a result of it. Frankly, I can't say I blame her.

Eric W, said...

I agree completely Scott.
Fred, I was going to join you last night, but I figured all that would happen is that I would end up bickering with Moveon crowd, so I decided to stay home.

realdebate said...

A pity you do not have a tv Scott to see some of the coverage on her. Chris Matthews was begging her to run for office. She is basking in the glory of her new found celebrity.

Here are some of her more "colorful" coments on things.

"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We’re waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.

Sheehan, who is demanding a second meeting with Bush, stated: "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."

Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:

"They’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up..." Sheehan said of the Bush administration.

"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"

"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it’s so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog shit in Washington, we will impeach all those people."

This woman is unglued and is really demeaning her son's life. He made his choice, he knew the risks, he made his choices. The rest of his family respects that. Cindy Sheehan is an unglued anti-war protestor who lost a son, not simply the mother of a slain soldier.

There is a mother who called the Limbaugh show yesterday, I would ask everyone to listen to this.

scott said...

I really don't know how her "colorful" comments impacts my own position. As I said, the only thing she and I have in common is the feeling that we were deceived about the necessity of having a war and a lot of people are now dead because of it.

You want us to listen to excerpts from the Rush Limbaugh show, yet when I utilize a link to a partisan web site you are the first to cry foul. So I listened. What exactly is it that you wish to draw our attention to in this excerpt?

Eric W, said...

I'm probalby driving the other posters nuts, so I'll keep it brief. (I hope.)

I am not paranoid. I'll admit, I bought into a few of the more outrageous stories for a small period of time. (When I was much younger and unable to verify sources. Boy it's amazing what broadband enables you to find out.)
But I try to source out as many of the facts as I am capable of doing at the time. For instance: If a story runs that says they're putting cameras in the streets, I generally believe it as it fits with what has come before. However, the current story I am researching, terrorist drills in Charleston, South Carolina is something I will post as my opinion.

Bilderbergers are real, they put out press releases and many important people attend their meetings. John Edwards attended in 2004 and ran for President shortly thereafter.

As far as Bush and Bin Laden vacationing together, there was a press conference held at the Whitehouse shortly after 911 and this is what the person holding the conference said. (I don't have the document off hand, I need to go look for it. My hard drive crashed about a year ago and I lost about 1 gig of official documents and video.)I am at work at the moment and much of my documentation is at home on my laptop.
I try to limit my 'theories' to things I can provide evidence for, however I am still playing catch-up from last year. So if it takes me a bit, bear with me.

For now, I give you a taste of info:
Bush Sr. was head of the CIA in the late 70's right? Well Bin Laden was a CIA asset (Like Saddam)with the codename Tim Osman. (Quick link)

So what are we to believe? That we trained bin Laden (via CIA) and he turned on us? Why would he bite the hand that feeds him? Where is he getting the funding, the training?
No, he was trained by us and is carrying out his orders, given by us, just like MS-13 was trained at Fort Benning in Texas and is now waging war with us on our southern This gives the globalists the pretext to enact policies to enforce new policies (Patriot Act, Domestic Security Enhancement Act) to 'protect' us.
Notice who the recipient of most of the laws are? Us. Notice how the insurgency in Iraq is growing, not disapating? This provides the pretext to go into Syria/Iran.

(more later)

Eric W, said...

Yikes, that was a mess. Oh well, that's what I get for starting and stopping repeatedly.

My solutions. Easy...
1) Disband the Federal Reserve/IRS. This cuts off the illicit flow of money and restores a wealth based economy.
2) Slow/Stop training 'freedom fighters' in other countries. We are not global police. And 9 times out of 10, these guerillas cause more problems than they solve.
3) Eliminate nonsense policies such as searching people such as yourself for nail cutters before you board a plane.
4) Secure the border. Take much of the national guard and use it to defend OUR borders.
5) Enforce immigration policy.

I believe that these would generate unprecedented prosperity in our country and greatly reduce many of the reasons for terrorism. But let's be honest. Anyone could go get the materials for a bomb, get on a bus and blow it up. NO amount of government or human intervention will eliminate it completely.

Patrick said...

Charlie Sykes covered your post today, I thought you would like to listen to it if you missed it (even if he got your URL wrong).

Sykes / Real Debate Wisconsin

The Game said...

wow, too bad sykes messed up the URL...but cool that he checks out your site...

Eric W, said...

Who would of thought that our very own little blogger would grow up to be this big time reporter...(sniff...sniff) I'm soooo proud! :)

Eric W, said...

Sorry, I posted Fort Benning in Texas, it's Fort Benning in Georgia.

RoseIndigo said...

Eric, I agree with ALL your solutions, except the IRS one. Even though I would love to see the IRS disbanded, as I've said in other posts, I don't think now is the time. We have a mess. We have to clean it up. And that's gonna cost us.

You got the bin Laden stuff partially wrong. Yes, he was trained by our CIA, but if you will recall, in the 70s our main enemy was communism. Bin Laden was trained by us to help fight communism in that area of the world, especially in Afghanistan which had a war going with Russia. Remember? He was armed with all the weaponry necessary to do that. He probably convinced the CIA that he was on our side and they bought into it, with their endless irrational suspicions. I remember those days well.

When communism was no longer a threat, bin Laden turned on us. Yes, untamed animals often bite the hand that feeds them. Apparently bin Laden's aim was to make Islam the ruler of the planet right from the beginning, except in our paranoia to fight communism, the U.S. didn't realize that or put the thought aside if it ever occurred to them. My father always said that communism would die a natural death if we didn't keep propping it up, but of course, Americans were so delusional about it that they kept all sorts of so-called "freedom fighters" trained all over the world, including bin Laden.

However, that is BESIDE THE POINT NOW. What's past is past and the mistake has been made. Now we need to take care of the results.

Just as you and I have made mistakes in life that we subsequently need to clean up, so countries sometimes have to do it, especially when the very existence of your nation is on the line---and our life as a nation is on the line.

And that is my one big beef with Bush Jr. He is not doing enough fast enough, and he is not securing our borders, and he is not profiling in the security checks as he ought to. It seems awfully stupid to me to search a girl scout while letting an obviously young Arab male right behind her through without a hitch in the name of "fair play". To hell with fair play! Or worse, little ol' 80 year old people with blue eyes and gray hair, as has happened to friends of mine.

The U.S. was so paranoid about communism in those days, that we now have the results of that paranoia---but we still need to deal with it. With the talks my German father and I had, I was always surprised and slightly annoyed at the paranoia, but I remember when I said anything I was nearly drummed out of whatever room I was in and labeled as a communist sympathizer, including class rooms in high school.

RoseIndigo said...

And the Cindy comments posted prove she's nuts. I've heard some her sound bites, one in which she called the president a murderer.

So she's not playing with a full deck, and those who have sympathy with her at this point aren't either. It's one thing to have sympathy with her loss as a mother. It's quite another to follow her around like puppydogs and listen to the insane commentary she is making now.

scott said...

It seems awfully stupid to me to search a girl scout while letting an obviously young Arab male right behind her through without a hitch in the name of "fair play". To hell with fair play!

I really do see the point here, but I'm still uncomfortable with saying "to hell with fair play." Living in a free country is inherently dangerous. I don't think I want to live in one where fair play is cast aside at the first sign of trouble. I'd rather take the risk and keep our freedoms in place.

shana said...

Well said, Scott.

scott said...

It's one thing to have sympathy with her loss as a mother. It's quite another to follow her around like puppydogs and listen to the insane commentary she is making now.

And it's yet another thing to vilify her personally because she's a threat to your political views. Myself, I have sympathy for her loss and I have a further sympathy: she feels she's been misled about the war and so do I.

Eric W, said...

I am a firm believer in several things, one of those is that when you get past the rhetoric and propoganda, most people actually agree with one another. True we often have different takes on certain issues, but the majority of people see most things the same.

I see that you remember that the CIA trained funded, equipped bin Laden. Saddam Hussein, as well as the MS-13 gang we are hearing so much about now were also trained by us. I believe that leads us to a couple of conlclussions.

1) We SUCK at training LOYAL guerillas.
If this is true, what does this say about the future of the Republican Guard and the fighters that we trained for the future of Iraq? I believe we are seeing the begining of the mess, now.

2) We're doing it on purpose.
I believe this makes the most sense. In war, neither side profits, it's the manufacturers of arms that win and Bin Laden, Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, the Clintons, McCain, are in up to their eyeballs.

I know Cindy is a tad loopy, but I think she has realised as much about her government (she indicated this in an interview) and is extremely angry and not thinking through her actions. But that does not make her incorrect, just irrational.

RoseIndigo said...

So you two are ready to risk another 9/11? OK, whatever. No skin offa my nose since I'm not anywhere near the paths of destruction, but I think that's the height of ignorance.

Eric W., the other thing I wanted to say about communism is that I remember the fear of RUSSIAN communism being all pervasive in this society in the 50's, the 60's and the 70s. I don't think even the CIA paid a whole lot of attention to Chinese communism. It was all about Russia.

And they got it wrong. Russian communism turned out to be like the Wizard of Oz, all smoke and mirrors. Chinese communism is a different ballgame. It isn't smoke and mirrors in the least. Their economy is growing by leaps and bounds, and all they have to do is give the word to No. Korea to invade So. Korea, or march a Chinese army into Taiwan---and we will be dead in the water.

What I'm hoping for is that as the Chinese economy grows and prospers and they see how the U.S. does business (we have a lot of companies there these days) and see that it works for them, that the people will like their comforts enough not to want to rock the boat even if their regime wants to. But that's a slim hope.

Now in the case of dealing with the Chinese I believe diplomacy is everything. At least the Chinese, communists or not, understand diplomacy whereas the Arabs are stone-age people who don't seem to understand it at all, and their hatred for Israel is so intense that no amount of diplomacy is ever going to get us anywhere, including what's happening now in the Gaza with Israel moving its people out. Mark my word, after the Palestinians have Gaza, they will want more. Some of them have already come right out and said that---and it ain't over by a long shot. They want Israel totally destroyed, and there is no way they will be happy until it is. And as long as we befriend Israel we will be on their satan list.

I've known some Arabs, seemingly decent people, some of them highly educated, and some of them drop-dead handsome. Whenever they discovered I was German they launched into their spiel, thinking I would be on their side. But they'd given themselves away by the time they noticed I wasn't on their side. The hatred for Israel and everything Jewish is RED HOT and UGLY. Every bit as ugly as anything the nazis ever felt. Diplomacy with them isn't going to do a bit of good.

And I do feel that Israel has a right to exist. The fact that the U.N. is not protecting Israel with all methods necessary is something else that speaks to me of U.N. corruption and uselessness----since they are the ones who CREATED ISRAEL. Now the cowards won't even protect their own creation. So I see no hope of that side of the world ever being civilized unless we bring them to their knees.

scott said...

So you two are ready to risk another 9/11?

So you're ready to exchange everyone's freedom for a little promised safety?

RoseIndigo said...

Eric W. - As for training Iraqui troops, you may be right. They may turn on us, because no matter what it seems like now, they HATE ISRAEL.

On the other hand, Iraq may turn out to be another Germany or Japan and actually turn into a civilized country. I think that's what Bush is hoping for. With one civilized country in that area, once the economy is going, maybe the other Arab states will get a clue. Not sure that will happen since Turkey is a Muslim country and was rather civilized, and has had more and more trouble from its own fundamentalist groups.

I was personally thrilled to hear that Turkey was not allowed into the European Union. Besides some of the grisly things they have done in places like Cyprus, admitting Turkey into the EU would give even more Muslim fanatics easy access to Europe since they wouldn't even need a passport and there are no checkpoints and they are all one happy family. At least they are trying to be a happy family and letting Turkey into the group would almost guarantee a very UNHAPPY family indeed.

The fact remains that the Arabs who ruled much of the known world in the early 1000's, want to rule the world again---and under no circumstances will I sit by and watch it happen if I can do anything about it.

As for the Bush family being in cahoots with the Clintons, McCain, etc. and the people you named, I've seen no clear evidence of such, although I am wary. In the meantime I believe in taking care of one thing at a time while keeping the other possibilities is mind.

And they are possibilities. When Bush Jr. assigned Bush Sr AND Clinton to head the tsunami relief, that did not look very savory to me. One couldn't help but ask "What the hell is going on here?"

It's a joy to talk with you. I don't mind differences when they are intelligently presented. And I do agree that most people agree more than they realize, if only they would get past the sound bite conversations and really get into it.

So thanks, I've enjoyed this, and even learned a thing or two. Some day we'll have to discuss the IRS. :-)

RoseIndigo said...

Scott, try making some sense. Right now as things are, I AM NOT FREE anywhere because of the threat of terrorism, and neither are you. Latest I heard they are even checking babies at airports who have a similar name to whatever list security has. So even babies aren't FREE.

At least if they did profiling most of us would still be free, while they zero in on the people who are most likely to be involved. For heaven's sake, it's basic police work. If a crime is repeated over and over and over again by a while male in his 20s with blue eyes, you look for a white males in their 20s with blue eyes because you are wasting your time if you look for a black male with brown eyes in his 70s. This is not rocket science. Your paranoia about racial profiling is every bit as dumb as the paranoia was about Russian communism years ago.

But like I said, no skin offa my nose. You live nearer to Chicago than I do, and if a suitcase nuke goes off in Chicago you're the one who will get the fallout, not me.

So believe what you like, and I'll continue to believe that you ought to take a course in "Detective 101".

Eric W, said...

Hehehe...Rose, Don't even get me started on Chicago... LOL.

So this thing with Bush Sr. and Clinton suddnely being best freinds creeps you out a bit too?
That's cuz they're drug running buddies. I have heard high level DEA agents testify to that effect. I could go into the whole spiel, but I think we've broached enough issues at this point, gotta save some of my steam for band practice tonight.
Think of it this way. A couple of years ago, I heard of Illinois conducting checkpoints to investigate a hit and run accident that had happened a week ago that date. Their way to solve things was to compel others to submit to interrogation. I believe failure to comply would have resulted in charges being filed. Those people had done nothing wrong, yet they were penalized time and scrutinized for no other reason than they were there.
This whole 'War on Terrorism' is just like the 'War on Drugs'. It isn't meant to be won, it is only meant to increase the size of the police machine.

RoseIndigo said...

Not sure I totally agree with your last post Eric W, but like I've said, NOTHING would surprise me.

But I do have one more thing I want to point out as to why I am so absolutely PRO American, since I wasn't born here. Bear with me because there is method to my madness.

I was born in Berlin. My first memory is of being in a bomb shelter during an attack, a direct hit, which set everything on its head, with my baby brother in his carriage almost asphyxiated by all the people in their heavy winter coats falling on him in the carriage, and my mother clawing her way through to her child by throwing people out of the way. I see it clearly even now, after all those years, her frantic clawing to save her baby, while I was being cradled in the arms of a friend of my father's who was home on leave and had come to give my mother a letter from him.

My father fought in Stalingrad, one of the absolutely WORST and most HORRIBLE battles of WWII. When he came home on leave after only he and one other member of his whole company survived, he told my mother that Germany was losing the war. He was sure of it, and he wasn't sorry. He told her that if the family got separated in the coming chaos, she was to head wherever the U.S. army was. If she couldn't get there, the next best were the Brits. He told her under NO CIRCUMSTANCES was she to stay in Berlin where the Russians were likely to come in, and neither was she to go into French territory. The reason was that the French and the Russians were BARBARIC, and they were. Decent people can't even imagine the things they did. The Brits were OK but not as likely to give fair treatment as the Americans (we called them Yanks).

And so that's what she did. She walked all across Germany with her two babies to get to where the U.S. Army was. I could tell you story after story, from my own personal memory, of how wonderful those GI's were to us. I've written it all down for my children to be able to read some day.

After the war the U.S. interrogated German citizens in order to help re-establish some sort of law and order, and those who had not been nazis were recruited for the police force. My father was one of them even though he was a tool and die maker. With German industry gone there was no place for that trade, so he became a cop, trained by the U.S. forces.

In that capacity he worked with the U.S. military. They came to our house all the time, pockets stuffed with candy, bubble gum, toy cars for my brother, paperdolls for me, food that we needed because my brother and I were malnourished with spots on our lungs. They were ANGELS!!! Yeah, there were some jerks amongst them, but I don't remember the jerks. I just remember those strong young shining men with straight teeth, laughing, and handing out candy and even getting down on the floor with us to play whatever games we wanted to play. I felt SAFE with them for the first time in my little life.

If the present GIs are anything like those WWII GIs were, the Iraqis will love them. We have to remember that this is a country we are in, with lots of ordinary people, not just training of mercenaries like we trained bin Laden. When I see pictures of the Iraqi children following the tanks and waving, I know exactly what they are feeling.

And therein lies my hope; that we are doing the right thing, that our GIs are mostly wonderful, and that those kids are gonna remember.

I remember, and I would defend the U.S. with my very last breath because of them. To this day I pray for those GIs who were so endlessly kind to us, even though I don't know their names and barely remember their faces.

The Iraqis are an intelligent people. If any country can become civilized in that part of the world it will be Iraq. And hopefully those children will remember those wonderful GIs and remember that it was America who sent them.

scott said...

Rose, I'm keeping my freedom. You do what you think is best. If you're so scared of terrorists that you're willing to sacrifice your freedom for it, you do that.

What is equally disturbing is that you seem to think it's someone else's freedom that you're sacrificing. Whomever fits the profile. You turn over your fellow Americans to the anti-terror enforcement squad pretty quickly, I see. Me, I stand together with all Americans.

Also, I wonder how long it'd be before you fit some profile or another. You weren't born here, after all.

Lastly, I draw your attention to that famous quote by Martin Niemöller:

In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.

The young, dark-skinned Arab American men you speak of are, after all, Americans. I'm standing up for them - and for all of us.

realdebate said...

Wow.. go away all day topics catch fire, you get mentioned on the radio... miss a little miss a lot.

Eric W, said...

Scott, I always loved that quote.
Rose, thanks for sharing your heart, I admire your tenacity and compassion for those who do not have the kind of gifts we have in this country.

RoseIndigo said...

Scott, one of the problems is that this country has allowed too much illegal immigration in, people who have no papers, people who have expired papers, people who came here on a student visas and stayed, etc., etc. So, THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS!!!!! In fact, they make a mockery of me going through the fire drill I had to go through to become a citizen. And as far as I'm concerned, if you come into this country illegally, you have no rights of citizenship or the protections of that citizenship.

The perpetrators of 9/11 were NOT CITIZENS!!!!!!!!!

RoseIndigo said...

By the way, during WWII, there were also many Germans who were interred or deported, even though that wasn't covered much in the media; and rightly so, even if they were citizens.

You will find that in the REAL world instead of in the sort of leftist idealistic haze, people all too often do have divided loyalties if they were born somewhere else. The reality was that there were both Japanese and Germans who were helping the enemy. I know, because I know some of them who were deported, and some of them who are still here.

And when you have millions of illegals in the country, they have absolutely NO LOYALTY at all. And in a time of war one must be able to find those who have no loyalty and are dangerous.

I can only say that if the U.S. went to war with Germany again, I would have no problem with being questioned by the FBI and running through any security check they asked me to run through. In fact, I would consider that smart. Your attitude is just something to be taken advantage of by those who wish to do us harm.

scott said...

I have no problem with expelling illegal residents, rose. that's not hte issue here. The issue is do we want American citizens to be singled out for persecution based on their ethnic or religious background? I say no. Absolutely not. If that makes us a little bit more vulnerable, then so be it. Let's not forget to keep the very freedoms that we're fighting for.

The internment of Japanese Americans during WWII is a national disgrace, no matter how you try to justify it.

Also, the ALL CAPS and multiple exclamation points!!!!! make me feel like you're yelling at me. Are you?

RoseIndigo said...

Scott, I use all caps and exclamation points to emphasize something, not to shout. Sorry if you felt that's what I was doing. I know that all caps are used for shouting, but I don't have an underline or a bold here, and so I emphasize words with caps and some sentences with exclamation points, just as if I were speaking with certain words emphasized.

So tell me, if you also believe illegal immigration is a problem, how do you suggest we find them unless you single some groups out? Seems to me if you single a group of Mexican field workers out, your chances of finding illegals would be much higher than if you went to Hewlett Packard and searched through a bunch of engineers. The odds are that searching through engineers at HP would be a waste of manpower and the money that it costs.

And just because a certain group is singled out does not mean they are being persecuted, as you imply and as the poem by Niemoeller implies.

In this time of terrorist activity and overwhelming illegal immigration, singling out is simply a way of figuring your best odds of finding those who are suspicious and those who have actually broken the law or committed crimes.

If an Arab male is singled out at the airport, goes through security and cooperates and is then released to go on his way, how exactly is that persecution? The man is free to go about doing what he always does once they find he is not involved in nefarious activity. He isn't jailed or put in a concentration camp. He is merely slightly inconvenienced, instead of EVERYBODY being inconvenienced. I know a couple of reasonable Arabs who travel a lot, and who actually appreciate being checked since they don't want to get on a plane with a terrorist any more than the rest of us do. They put up with the inconvenience, not only for their own safety, but to quiet the fears of the people who have to get on the plane with them. It's the decent thing to do for heaven's sake.

I will once again say that is only good police work. You don't look for a 12-year-old girl scout when the group that committed a crime is described with specific character traits that are nowhere near "12-year-old girl scout".
If a plane were blown up by a gray-haired old grandmother with blue eyes, then I would not only EXPECT to be stopped at a security check point, but I would INSIST on it, for my own safety and to reassure the people getting on the same plane with me so my seat mate and I could have a pleasant conversation instead of suspicion and fear between us.

In the way security is being conducted now, NONE OF US ARE FREE any longer. To me that's like arresting everyone because one or two people committed a crime. That's absurd and where is the freedom in that, pray tell?